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[YiDao]

What do you think of China's introduction of an obstacle course http://www.long-shi.com/videos/?code=2008-14 where there are only the lion players and they have to recover red paper/bags in a time limit?

[H.P.Siow]

What do you think of China's introduction of an obstacle course http://www.long-shi.com/videos/?code=2008-14 where there are only the lion players and they have to recover red paper/bags in a time limit?

competing the skills of the lion dancers is good. But this Chinese people who introduced such a competition, I would only like to ask one question. Do they actually think about their origins and their roots. Losing the instruments in a Dance. If one day, some one approach one of these chinese people and ask them whats their last name, I'm just wondering, can they answer, "I don't Know, I lost it, I lost my roots" or "I gave up my roots"

I only can comment that, this kind of competition to me is "Skill examining" Not "Culture Examining"

[cashvo]

Hi YiDao and Master Siow...I've stumbled on that site too and thought it was interesting...in a wierd way and wonders what/how the Lion Dancing community thinks about it.

I've also noticed a rush of "innovations" spring up on the internet and wonder, "What are they thinking?" What are your perspections about these innovators:
- Lion Dancng under water: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-01/25/content_10716662.htm
- Culture shock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR4WXexJ538 - particularly at the beginning and at 6:45 frame.
- HipHop Lion Dance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF6pX0AUu5A&feature=related- lion came out at 1:30 frame
- HipHop LD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqoMeqSNc8E,
more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0wetBR9U1g,
more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrosQb6bkco&feature=related
more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-YYKXOh_X4
...and many more...seems to be a growing trends amongs the new teams and teens today.

If you could talk to these performers, what would you say to them?

[ryanthelion]

Personally because i am from the younger generation of lion dancers i think with the participation of lion dancers themselves in hip hop culture and Lion dancing, there would be some overlap. That said, most of what I've seen with lions doing hip hop has been really bad.

I'm a b-boy and a locker as well as a lion dancer, that doesn't mean that i necessarily think the different dance styles should mix.
I've seen "lion hip hop dance" and i think it makes both b-boying and Lion dancing look half as good.

I think "cultureshock" was especially disrespectful/ horrible because why would they make a monk a female? why didn't they use an acolyte mask or at least the female masks, they exist.

The only overlap that i can see as being possible is Locking being combined with the monk dance because it's supposed to be goofy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGLpvwDtigw and has similar stance movements, monks walk with their feet out, same with locking and locking can use the props such as fan and bottle.

B-boying should not be used because the rhythm and placement is all off. Most of what B-boys do is on the ground with their hands so lions obviously cant do it and the monks just look weird.

Popping which is shown in the videos is also totally off when they try to do it with the monks. It looks weird because popping is supposed to make you look unnatural, using waves and all sorts of isolation.

Commercial hip hop doesn't really work either because its based upon the combination of B-boying locking and popping.
I just don't think that people really know what they are doing when they are combining the 4 dances, they probably don't know the background to the funk/ hip hop dances and their usage either.

[hoksanlion]

i agree with what GM siow has said.just want to add on...lion dancing in this way is just pushing it off track.i still remember what he said at a penang lion dance competition debrief.he said that you should take in people's advantages,but you should know what is the meanng of it,otherwise if you take everything without knowing the meaning,then if i find the scottish skirt very nice and i wear it,people will say "seow ah kua (dialect for gays),you wear dress for what?"

[george]

As regards to lions doing hip hop etc. it should be noted that lion dance is not 'lion dancing/dancing lion' but 'a dance about the lion'. So in the dance, the lion is not dancing but walking, running, testing, eating etc etc.

[cashvo]

Hi George,

Good distinctions...do you care to elaborate on this point some more? I know what you are trying to say but could you restate and expand on this point some more for me?

Thanks

[hoksanlion]

okays,i will try to expand.lion dancing not only means taking the lion head and body,put it over you and dance,but it means that you put on the lion head and body,perform a story out of it.every routine has a meaning out of it,like climbing poles,or doing freestyle lion dance,what is the meaning of it?it means that a lion is running in the woods,then it encounters a cliff,and it wants to ascend the cliff,then with testings,the lion climbs up the cliff,and looks for something to eat while on the lookout for enemies and et cetera.lion dancing is something that it is very easy to learn but very difficult to master and excel in the art as you need to grasp many things accurately.

[george]

I think Hokshanlion has summed it up nicely. Lion dance is a story about the lion told in the form of a dance. In my view hip-hop music can be used for lion dance, there are teams that incorporate different music into their routine, as long it fits into my definition above. However, whether it can still be called Chinese Lion Dance will be debatable.

Coming back to YiDao's original question, the obstacle course lion 'dance' will be just that, an obstacle course done by athletes in lion dance costume using acrobatic moves. It cannot be called lion dance as it is most definitely not a dance.